[REL] Helena's Embrace (v1.0)

Source:  [REL] Helena's Embrace (v1.0)    Tag:  sorian ai
Helena's Embrace



A newly forming planet on the edge of a highly disputed system has begun to form a crusty surface atop the magma. Getting control of this planet early could turn the tide of the war in this area. Securing it for your faction is crucial.

Map Size 10x10,

Multyplayer suggested for 2v2 or FFA.



Special thanks to Aralez who asked if he could get that in "cornflower" blue.



Image

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Changelog



Version .01

Map Release



Version .12

Heightmap changes

-pathways widened

Teturemap changes

-Altered to fit new hieghtmap and decal placement

Props Added

Decals Added



Version .13

Patch 1.1.3251 Update



Version 1.0

New Decals placed

New Normalmaps placed

New Props placed

Particle effects adjusted

New particle effect placed

Uploaded to The Vault





Download:

Currently only available through The Vault on GPGNet. More mirrors to be added soon.|||love the strategic layout of the map :)



nice work!|||Yay, wow, great! I like those craters and the layout. And as always you didn't place too many resource-points, nice! I prefer maps with a reasonable number of metal points (like this one).



One question: Is that lava impassable?



Have to test that map asap! *downloads*|||Aralez|||well, if you cheat and put water units on land they get screwed really fast, cant you do something like that? (PS a battleship dies in seconds)|||painangel|||Looks great, and nice layout too. Good work :)|||Ha! Had a nice game (FFA) with 2 Sorian AIs and a Sorian Rush AI (1.5b) and instead of ending the game quickly i decided to be cruel and built 3 Scathis in the middle of the map and destroyed the enemies!!!



Here some pics:



Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image



Free Picture Gallery with PicTiger



As you can see the first Scathis had 511 kills! :D



Here the replay if anyone wants it (~1 hour long):

http://rapidshare.com/files/28095106/fu ... eplay.html



and here the used AI mod:

http://rapidshare.com/files/28095656/01 ... b.zip.html



Awesome map! A problem: The AI got stuck on 2 or 3 places. I unstuck them with 2 Nukes then :D



Let's hope they correct the AI pathfinding in the next patch. Don't know if making the pathes wider would help, have to take a look in the map editor.|||Really like these darker maps.



edit: actually, nevermind what I said about the AI on this map.

aralezes new replay (#2, not #1) shows that the jaws and regular sorian AI work somewhat acceptably on this map :)

to say the least.|||I think i found the reason for the poor AI performance: The pathways are too narrow for bigger squads or at least there are some too narrow parts.



I marked the places where the AI got stuck in my match (pink) and other possibly problematic points (violet):



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I used the "Buildability view" option in the map editor to get this picture (hadn't used it before), maybe you can use that observations for a version 1.1, painangel? :)|||The problem with the ai is actually with the editor on maps like this. Markers that appear to be on land in the editor aren't and are instead in the non-reachable parts of the map. The ai then sets that as it's destination and appears to get stuck although nothing is in its way. The traversable land is a bit wider then what is shown on the buildability map because units can travel over rougher terrain than what you can build on. In this map that includes the craters as well which units are able to travel over.



Edit: Also there seems to be two different types of stuck. The one above where they get stuck on the edge of a pathway trying to get to somewhere it isn't possible for it to go. Then there is the "stricken dumb" stuck where units sit in an area with nothing blocking them while other units simply pass by them. There is no reasonable explanation for this type of stuck.



The problem with base building is the same, defense markers, way points, etc sometimes are set off of the buildable land when they appear to be on the land in the editor.



I'll most likely revise the ai markers of the troubled maps once the official editor is released.|||painangel|||sveno|||sveno|||@painangel: hazardX updated his map editor:

http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?t=697



From the changelog: "- Improved marker positioning while dragging on rough terrain"



Is this what you needed to make ver. 1.1? :)



Please, please, please: Do update/fix the map, it's a really great map and deserves it! Making those pathes a tiny bit wider and fixing the markers is all that is needed to make it absolutely perfect!|||Aralez|||Had another skirmish on that map, me against a team of 3 AIs (1 Sorian AI, 1 Sorian Rush AI and 1 Jaws AI) and to my surprise the two non-rush AIs had no problems on that map! The rush AI got stuck and i never saw anything of it, but the 2 other AIs crushed me. I actually wished that they would have problems and would get stuck :D



Being shelled from 2 sides with multiple T3 artilleries, Experimentals coming in from all sides faster than i could shoot them down, my nuke being useless thanks to enemy SMDs... well i was doomed. :D



At the end a huge army of Siegebots arrived and i capitulated (Ctrl+X, Ctrl+K) :)



Awesome map! My suggestion: Use non-rush AIs on it to get the most out of it.



here the replay in case anybody wants to see it, i included the AI mod i used for the skirmish: http://rapidshare.com/files/28615549/ho ... _.zip.html



3 AIs are too much for me, i have beaten 2, but i can't win against more without using rushes and or AI exploits (e.g. build 3 T1 PD in the AIbase at the start -> instawin).|||From what little I do know about the ai I think that it generates a "threat level" map. It uses that dynamic map to determine where to attack in some situations. It might be that rush style ai use that map more than the normal ai does. That "threat map" may be sending it into what is unreachable areas so it seems to get stuck.



I'm not sure if that is actually what is happening though because I have a fairly limited knowledge of how the ai actually works. Someone like Sorian would have a better idea if that's the possible cause or not.|||I retract my last statement.



this new replay from aralez means avoid the 1.5b sorian rush ai (1.6 may be much better) but the jaws ai and regular sorian 1.5b ai works well enough :)

to say the least.|||Quote -nova: "to say the least" :D

Yes, they really kicked my butt this time :oops:



Still, i loved every minute of that match!|||I really like your map layouts, pain angel!



They have great potential for multi-chokepoint multi-front multi-tier battles. WHEE!



Somewhat wider passageways would let the pathfinder ease up a bit here and there, though, I suppose!





Great job on the craters and lava.|||Pathfinding for maps like this should be fixed for 1.6. The AI may still get stuck on walls, but that only seems to happen on large semi-circle walls. The AI will not have units just sit there outside of it's base and not move.



The AI also may have a hard time finding ways around cliffs, but once one platoon does the rest should follow since the pathfinding refines itself over time.



As long as map makers follow Aralez's map marker guidelines the AI should be able to use the vast majority of custom maps without a problem.|||Just wanted to drop an update in here on the status of Helena updates.



Well basically I'm sitting here looking at what I did with Forgotten Valley and the things I could add in Helena's. From the looks of it, I could take Helena's from a decent map that looks alright to a level that would blow your socks off. So guess what, that's what I'm gonna do. It will probably mean no new map next week just a major update on this one. A lot, lot, lot of work is going to be involved and Sorian's 1.6 will probably be out by then (hopefully :)). So keep a watch here I guess for sometime next week.|||cool.|||Yeeha, great to hear that! Btw, Sorian already released the second version of his 1.6 mod, the transports do work now and he got rid of the stuck-unit problem as well !!!!!